Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)
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| « Older discussions | Archives: | [[{{#rel2abs:./Archive 1}}Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)}}|1]], [[{{#rel2abs:./Archive 2}}Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)}}|2]], [[{{#rel2abs:./Archive 3}}Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)}}|3]], [[{{#rel2abs:./Archive 4}}Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)}}|4]], [[{{#rel2abs:./Archive 5}}Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)}}|5]], [[{{#rel2abs:./Archive 6}}Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)}}|6]], [[{{#rel2abs:./Archive 7}}Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)}}|7]], [[{{#rel2abs:./Archive 8}}Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)}}|8]], [[{{#rel2abs:./Archive 9}}Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)}}|9]], [[{{#rel2abs:./Archive 10}}Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)}}|10]], [[{{#rel2abs:./Archive 11}}Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)}}|11]], [[{{#rel2abs:./Archive 12}}Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)}}|12]], [[{{#rel2abs:./Archive 13}}Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)}}|13]], [[{{#rel2abs:./Archive 14}}Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)}}|14]], 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90}}Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)}}|90]]|, [[{{#rel2abs:./Archive 91}}Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)}}|91]]|, [[{{#rel2abs:./Archive 92}}Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)}}|92]]|, [[{{#rel2abs:./Archive 93}}Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)}}|93]]|, [[{{#rel2abs:./Archive 94}}Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)}}|94]]|, [[{{#rel2abs:./Archive 95}}Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)}}|95]]|, [[{{#rel2abs:./Archive 96}}Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)}}|96]]|, [[{{#rel2abs:./Archive 97}}Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)}}|97]]|, [[{{#rel2abs:./Archive 98}}Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)}}|98]]|, [[{{#rel2abs:./Archive 99}}Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)}}|99]]|, [[{{#rel2abs:./Archive 100}}Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)}}|100]]}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}|, [[{{#rel2abs:./Archive 51}}Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)}}|51]]|, [[{{#rel2abs:./Archive 52}}Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)}}|52]]|, [[{{#rel2abs:./Archive 53}}Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)}}|53]]|, [[{{#rel2abs:./Archive 54}}Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)}}|54]]|, [[{{#rel2abs:./Archive 55}}Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)}}|55]]|, [[{{#rel2abs:./Archive 56}}Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)}}|56]]|, [[{{#rel2abs:./Archive 57}}Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)}}|57]]|, [[{{#rel2abs:./Archive 58}}Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)}}|58]]|, [[{{#rel2abs:./Archive 59}}Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)}}|59]]|, [[{{#rel2abs:./Archive 60}}Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)}}|60]]|, [[{{#rel2abs:./Archive 61}}Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)}}|61]]|, [[{{#rel2abs:./Archive 62}}Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)}}|62]]|, [[{{#rel2abs:./Archive 63}}Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)}}|63]]|, [[{{#rel2abs:./Archive 64}}Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)}}|64]]|, [[{{#rel2abs:./Archive 65}}Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)}}|65]]|, [[{{#rel2abs:./Archive 66}}Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)}}|66]]|, [[{{#rel2abs:./Archive 67}}Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)}}|67]]|, [[{{#rel2abs:./Archive 68}}Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)}}|68]]|, [[{{#rel2abs:./Archive 69}}Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)}}|69]]|, [[{{#rel2abs:./Archive 70}}Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)}}|70]]|, [[{{#rel2abs:./Archive 71}}Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)}}|71]]|, [[{{#rel2abs:./Archive 72}}Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)}}|72]]|, [[{{#rel2abs:./Archive 73}}Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)}}|73]]|, [[{{#rel2abs:./Archive 74}}Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)}}|74]]|, [[{{#rel2abs:./Archive 75}}Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)}}|75]]}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}|, [[{{#rel2abs:./Archive 26}}Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)}}|26]]|, [[{{#rel2abs:./Archive 27}}Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)}}|27]]|, [[{{#rel2abs:./Archive 28}}Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)}}|28]]|, [[{{#rel2abs:./Archive 29}}Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)}}|29]]|, [[{{#rel2abs:./Archive 30}}Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)}}|30]]|, [[{{#rel2abs:./Archive 31}}Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)}}|31]]|, [[{{#rel2abs:./Archive 32}}Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)}}|32]]|, [[{{#rel2abs:./Archive 33}}Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)}}|33]]|, [[{{#rel2abs:./Archive 34}}Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)}}|34]]|, [[{{#rel2abs:./Archive 35}}Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)}}|35]]|, [[{{#rel2abs:./Archive 36}}Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)}}|36]]|, [[{{#rel2abs:./Archive 37}}Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)}}|37]]|, [[{{#rel2abs:./Archive 38}}Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)}}|38]]|, [[{{#rel2abs:./Archive 39}}Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)}}|39]]|, [[{{#rel2abs:./Archive 40}}Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)}}|40]]|, [[{{#rel2abs:./Archive 41}}Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)}}|41]]|, [[{{#rel2abs:./Archive 42}}Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)}}|42]]|, [[{{#rel2abs:./Archive 43}}Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)}}|43]]|, [[{{#rel2abs:./Archive 44}}Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)}}|44]]|, [[{{#rel2abs:./Archive 45}}Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)}}|45]]|, [[{{#rel2abs:./Archive 46}}Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)}}|46]]|, [[{{#rel2abs:./Archive 47}}Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)}}|47]]|, [[{{#rel2abs:./Archive 48}}Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)}}|48]]|, [[{{#rel2abs:./Archive 49}}Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)}}|49]]|, [[{{#rel2abs:./Archive 50}}Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)}}|50]]}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}|[[{{#rel2abs:./Archive 1}}Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)}}|1]]|, [[{{#rel2abs:./Archive 2}}Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)}}|2]]|, [[{{#rel2abs:./Archive 3}}Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)}}|3]]|, [[{{#rel2abs:./Archive 4}}Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)}}|4]]|, [[{{#rel2abs:./Archive 5}}Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)}}|5]]|, [[{{#rel2abs:./Archive 6}}Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)}}|6]]|, [[{{#rel2abs:./Archive 7}}Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)}}|7]]|, [[{{#rel2abs:./Archive 8}}Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)}}|8]]|, [[{{#rel2abs:./Archive 9}}Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)}}|9]]|, [[{{#rel2abs:./Archive 10}}Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)}}|10]]|, [[{{#rel2abs:./Archive 11}}Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)}}|11]]|, [[{{#rel2abs:./Archive 12}}Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)}}|12]]|, [[{{#rel2abs:./Archive 13}}Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)}}|13]]|, [[{{#rel2abs:./Archive 14}}Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)}}|14]]|, [[{{#rel2abs:./Archive 15}}Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)}}|15]]|, [[{{#rel2abs:./Archive 16}}Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)}}|16]]|, [[{{#rel2abs:./Archive 17}}Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)}}|17]]|, [[{{#rel2abs:./Archive 18}}Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)}}|18]]|, [[{{#rel2abs:./Archive 19}}Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)}}|19]]|, [[{{#rel2abs:./Archive 20}}Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)}}|20]]|, [[{{#rel2abs:./Archive 21}}Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)}}|21]]|, [[{{#rel2abs:./Archive 22}}Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)}}|22]]|, [[{{#rel2abs:./Archive 23}}Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)}}|23]]|, [[{{#rel2abs:./Archive 24}}Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)}}|24]]|, [[{{#rel2abs:./Archive 25}}Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)}}|25]]}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}|no archives yet ([[{{#rel2abs:./Archive 1}}Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)}}|create]])}} | ||||
| <inputbox> type=fulltext prefix=Wikipedia:Village pump break=no width=30 searchbuttonlabel=Search all village pumps & archives </inputbox> |
| Centralized discussion | ||
|---|---|---|
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| Proposals | Discussions | Recurring proposals |
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| archive • talk • edit • history • watch | ||
e · h · w · r }} To-do: | |||
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| {| style="background:none;width:auto;" |  | Here are some tasks you can do: | |
testing templates (continued)
for anyone interested in commenting https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=22135. I would have posted this the previous discussion here, but the discussion has already been archived.Inline template wikitext formatting
Please take a look at Wikipedia:Centralized discussion/Citation discussion#Inline template wikitext formatting and comment, when you have a chance to do so. Thank you. 3:54 am, Today (UTC−5)Talk subpages and TOCs
With a talk page that includes an assessment comments subpage, is there a fix for the subpage sections being listed in the main talk pages' contents list?For example, if Talk:Foo/Comments exists with 3 sections, then Talk:Foo will include those 3 sections in its TOC; clicking on the links has no effect. The 3 sections can appear multiple times, presumably once for each projbanner that makes use of {{WPBannerMeta}}'s Comments parameter. Thanks. –Whitehorse1 20:13, 7 March 2010 (UTC)
- This is a frequently asked question, but doesn't seem to be properly documented anywhere. To avoid these problems it is best not to have any headings on comments subpages. This is one of the reasons that the community has decided to stop using these subpages in the future. — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 20:41, 7 March 2010 (UTC)
- Thanks, M. I vaguely recall the village pump discussion on phasing them out. Would changing the existing headings to, say, bold larger type plus <hr> tags work as an interim step do you think?
I ask because the suggestion at the page you linked, of subst'ing the comments subpage to the talk page and then deleting it, might cause attribution problems with the page being larger than one or two comments. For that matter it looks like 2 sections were copypasted into it, without histmerging, from the wikiproject's talkpage. Or would license compliance not be a problem since regardless of where they were originally submitted, the comments themselves are signed? –Whitehorse1 22:06, 7 March 2010 (UTC)- I think the last discussion was Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)/Archive 57#Talk pages: the repeating table of contents (TOC) problem. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) talk 21:58, 7 March 2010 (UTC)
- I've just changed them to use ; and that sorted out the repeated TOC on that page. It might be better to move those comments to the main talk page and then blank or redirect the subpage. — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 22:02, 7 March 2010 (UTC)
- Thanks, Martin and Gadget. I was just looking at the last discussion link suggesting '''<big>''' with ; after submitting that addition to my comment, when you added a note you'd kindly fixed the markup. Thanks! Ideally, the deleting the subpage route sounds preferable to save having to put one of those {{copied}} templates on the Talk pages. Will the attribution thing above be an issue with that solution? –Whitehorse1 22:12, 7 March 2010 (UTC)
- I don't think there is an issue with attribution on talk pages, because editors' signatures would seem to do it perfectly well. — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 22:18, 7 March 2010 (UTC)
- It would seem so to me as well. (Unsigned comments until they're fixed aside obviously.) Anyone know for sure, or are you confident on that point? –Whitehorse1 22:22, 7 March 2010 (UTC)
- There's no problem with attribution, as long as the comments are signed. Of course a short note would be nice, saying that it was copied from the "/Comments" subpage, but most people leave notes when they're copying discussions from one page to another. However, there's no reason to delete the page history of those "/Comments" subpages, and they should probably be redirected rather than blanked, since blank pages are liable to be deleted in the future. Graham87 00:50, 8 March 2010 (UTC)
- Actually redirecting is problematic because then the wikiproject banners will try to self-transclude. — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 07:03, 8 March 2010 (UTC)
- I was thinking that there should be a way to noinclude a redirect so that it would redirect if you visited the page, but it wouldn't transclude the target of the redirect. Alas the following didn't work on Talk:Halloween/Comments:
<noinclude>
#REDIRECT[[Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)
</noinclude>
- Any suggestions? — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 13:50, 9 March 2010 (UTC)
- Aren't these being deprecated anyway? –xenotalk 13:54, 9 March 2010 (UTC)
- Yes they are, but the question of what to do with the pages has not been fully decided upon.
- Delete (loses history)
- Redirect (causes problems with self-transclusion)
- Blank (may be confusing)
- Replace with message (seems a bit overkill)
— Martin (MSGJ · talk) 14:48, 9 March 2010 (UTC)
- Thanks all. <abbr title="As I understand it">AIUI</abbr> the general view seems to be it's best to subst the Comments page contents to the main Talk page, which satisfies history & attribution through the signed-dated comments themselves, followed by deleting the—now-redundant Comments subpage using noinclude tags, as outlined at the discussion Martin linked. –Whitehorse1 19:59, 13 March 2010 (UTC)
- Yes they are, but the question of what to do with the pages has not been fully decided upon.
- Aren't these being deprecated anyway? –xenotalk 13:54, 9 March 2010 (UTC)
- I was thinking that there should be a way to noinclude a redirect so that it would redirect if you visited the page, but it wouldn't transclude the target of the redirect. Alas the following didn't work on Talk:Halloween/Comments:
- Actually redirecting is problematic because then the wikiproject banners will try to self-transclude. — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 07:03, 8 March 2010 (UTC)
- There's no problem with attribution, as long as the comments are signed. Of course a short note would be nice, saying that it was copied from the "/Comments" subpage, but most people leave notes when they're copying discussions from one page to another. However, there's no reason to delete the page history of those "/Comments" subpages, and they should probably be redirected rather than blanked, since blank pages are liable to be deleted in the future. Graham87 00:50, 8 March 2010 (UTC)
- It would seem so to me as well. (Unsigned comments until they're fixed aside obviously.) Anyone know for sure, or are you confident on that point? –Whitehorse1 22:22, 7 March 2010 (UTC)
- I don't think there is an issue with attribution on talk pages, because editors' signatures would seem to do it perfectly well. — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 22:18, 7 March 2010 (UTC)
- Thanks, Martin and Gadget. I was just looking at the last discussion link suggesting '''<big>''' with ; after submitting that addition to my comment, when you added a note you'd kindly fixed the markup. Thanks! Ideally, the deleting the subpage route sounds preferable to save having to put one of those {{copied}} templates on the Talk pages. Will the attribution thing above be an issue with that solution? –Whitehorse1 22:12, 7 March 2010 (UTC)
- Thanks, M. I vaguely recall the village pump discussion on phasing them out. Would changing the existing headings to, say, bold larger type plus <hr> tags work as an interim step do you think?
Special Pages: Problem?!?!
All special pages under the maintenance section, appear to have a problem. They are not listed under inactive, so I assume they have not been disabled for technical reasons, as well as not having any indication of why it does not work. The pages are still regularly cached, but there are no results. Can someone explain, or find out what happened? Brambleclawx 23:51, 9 March 2010 (UTC)- Thx for the reminder below :D. I actually asked about this on IRC 2 days ago, which led to a very interesting conversation that concluded with "nobody knows". After that MZMcBride tracked the bugticket https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=21837 as being related, and after more and more talk, the cause was found (apparently some process didn't fully finish during an upgrade of the mysql databases). This problem has been corrected, and after the scripts have run (which can take 2 weeks for some pages), the pages should start to come back online again. —TheDJ (talk • contribs) 02:27, 12 March 2010 (UTC)
Job queue problem?
I modified a project's template to add additional classes last Thursday. Afterward, it removed nearly every article from the project. I can still go to an article's talk page and the correct category is there, but the article is not listed in the category. If I make a null edit (or any edit), then it populates it in the category but it is impractical to have to do that to every article in the project. The project shows very low, if any, rated articles and nearly 200 unrated. It shows 0 stub-rated articles and I'm pretty sure we have our share of stubs. I have brought this up on the assessment bot talk page and I was told it was more than likely a job queue problem and to give it a few days to a week. It will be one week tomorrow. I've never seen anything job queue related take 6 days. Should I be more patient and give it more time or is there another problem?—NMajdan•talk 17:30, 10 March 2010 (UTC)- You are not the first to make this observation. The jobqueue seems almost empty, but some of these category changes take ages none the less. Up to 2 weeks these days (1 week was definitely the max in the past) before some categories are updated. I'll ask around if anything changed. —TheDJ (talk • contribs) 19:51, 11 March 2010 (UTC)
- I left a message several days ago at Help talk:Job queue#Stuck queue which is being ignored. Where is the proper place for requesting job queue assistance? --Redrose64 (talk) 12:41, 14 March 2010 (UTC)
Character change count on history pages, just like on watchlists?
I've always wished that page histories would display the number of characters added or deleted from revision to revision, just like watchlists. Is there any reason they don't? AzureFury (talk | contribs) 23:08, 10 March 2010 (UTC)- I agree: that would be very helpful. - Pointillist (talk) 23:17, 10 March 2010 (UTC)
- No particular reason they don't. They display the size in bytes instead. We probably don't want to display both the size and change, it would be too cluttered. Actually, the history page is probably already much too cluttered. —Aryeh Gregor (talk • contribs) 23:23, 10 March 2010 (UTC)
- I think characters are more informative than bytes, so if given a choice, I'd replace the latter with the former. AzureFury (talk | contribs) 02:44, 11 March 2010 (UTC)
- That was my opinion, IIRC, but Brion disagreed. He pointed out that the exact number wasn't important anyway, so being off by a small fixed factor for a given language doesn't really matter. —Aryeh Gregor (talk • contribs) 19:31, 11 March 2010 (UTC)
- I think characters are more informative than bytes, so if given a choice, I'd replace the latter with the former. AzureFury (talk | contribs) 02:44, 11 March 2010 (UTC)
- Guess you're not too good with mental arithmetic? =) I think a script could probably be written to provide this functionality. –xenotalk 23:58, 10 March 2010 (UTC)
- I agree too, this is just what's needed—I was thinking the same thing recently. The total size is almost incidental; it's the number of characters added/deleted that's of immediate interest about each change. The watchlist view (especially aided by the colours) provides this information directly in a single history record in just the right way. ("Guess you're not too good with mental arithmetic" indeed! PL290 (talk) 09:02, 11 March 2010 (UTC)
- Consensus to change mediawiki default behaviour cannot be had by a handful of users on the pump. –xenotalk 19:36, 11 March 2010 (UTC)
- I also agree it would be helpful. One side question, if the history shows no page size, how can a page size of an article be found? Regards, SunCreator (talk) 12:36, 11 March 2010 (UTC)
- To get total size, not change size, one way is to add Doc PDA's script to your monobook.js. PL290 (talk) 13:20, 11 March 2010 (UTC)
Given any string <syntaxhighlight lang=javascript enclose=none>s</syntaxhighlight>, <syntaxhighlight lang=javascript enclose=none>s.length</syntaxhighlight> will give you the character-count and <syntaxhighlight lang=javascript enclose=none>encodeURIComponent(s).replace(/%../g, "_").length</syntaxhighlight> will give you the byte-count. ―AoV² 10:33, 14 March 2010 (UTC)
- I think that there has been a misunderstanding here. The original question is not about bytes versus characters, it is about showing the change in page size (as per the watchlist) versus the total page size (as per the page history). Consider this edit - in watchlist, it shows as "(+246)", whereas in page history it shows as "(80,847 bytes)". The original poster merely wants consistency. --Redrose64 (talk) 12:36, 16 March 2010 (UTC)
bunching problem
I noticed that Carrot did not have section editing enabled, and usually this is a bunching problem caused by lots of images, which this article does indeed have. I tried to fix it twice, first with Template:Stack and then with Template:FixBunching, and neither one did the trick. Anyone got any other ideas? Beeblebrox (talk) 00:07, 13 March 2010 (UTC)- Cenarium fixed it by removeing __NOEDITSECTION__. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) talk 00:14, 13 March 2010 (UTC)
- (e/c) Yes, the magic word __NOEDITSECTION__ was on it. Though I see that it's also on a hundred of articles which would need fixing too. Cenarium (talk) 00:19, 13 March 2010 (UTC)
- What is the purpose of that anyway? I don't recall ever seeing it before. Beeblebrox (talk) 00:59, 13 March 2010 (UTC)
- It removes all of the edit section links; it's used most notably for archives (archive templates like {{talkarchive}} include it), on the main page and other pages where showing edit section links wouldn't make sense. Some lists like List of woredas in the Amhara Region or List of current NFL team rosters use it too, though it's pretty rare. Otherwise it should definitely not be used in articles. Cenarium (talk) 02:48, 13 March 2010 (UTC)
- I removed most of them, except where it seemed that the
__NOEDITSECTION__is reasonable, like “List of …” articles, or Results of the Canadian federal election, 2000. Svick (talk) 17:18, 13 March 2010 (UTC)- Ah, that makes sense. I still wonder why someone chose to put in the carrot article, but that's another matter. Thanks for clarifying, no matter how long you edit here, there's always something else to learn about how it works... Beeblebrox (talk) 19:17, 14 March 2010 (UTC)
- I removed most of them, except where it seemed that the
- It removes all of the edit section links; it's used most notably for archives (archive templates like {{talkarchive}} include it), on the main page and other pages where showing edit section links wouldn't make sense. Some lists like List of woredas in the Amhara Region or List of current NFL team rosters use it too, though it's pretty rare. Otherwise it should definitely not be used in articles. Cenarium (talk) 02:48, 13 March 2010 (UTC)
- What is the purpose of that anyway? I don't recall ever seeing it before. Beeblebrox (talk) 00:59, 13 March 2010 (UTC)
Searching for unrendered wikitext
Can anyone suggest a way to search for articles containing specific unrendered wikitext? I'm interested in identifying articles which contain "<cite id=" or "<Cite id=". Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 02:05, 13 March 2010 (UTC)- Unrendered wiki-text? Could you be more specific? Do you mean hidden comments, templates...? (The best approach would be to use Regex).Smallman12q (talk) 02:10, 13 March 2010 (UTC)
- The database scanner in AWB will search within unrendered wikitext. Graham87 04:01, 13 March 2010 (UTC)
I clarify: Up until recently, HTML constructs like hand-crafted cite were used to supply hand-crafted cites with linkable anchors. Presuming browser support, such cites would highlight in blue when accessed via the specified anchor (e.g., like [[#whatever|wikilink to cite]]). This was recently deprecated due to conflicts with HTML 5. (See here, here, here, here, here, and here for some background. )
The (one? a?) current HTML idiom for accomplishing this seems to be e.g., Doe, John (2010) ''A fictional account''. However, articles exist with the now-broken and now-deprecated <cite id=... tags in them. I'm asking whether anyone knows how I could search for such articles.
Graham87, thanks for the pointer to AWB's database scanner. I currently favor an Ubuntu Linux platform and haven't used AWB lately. I think I've got too much on my plate just now to consider coming back up to speed on AWB and dealing with multi-gigabyte downloads of database dumps. Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 02:16, 14 March 2010 (UTC)
- If I can get a download, I will take a stab at it. This was on my todo list anyway. We will probably find more wonderful reference templates not on my list. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) talk 02:03, 14 March 2010 (UTC)
- Thanks. I'd appreciate a note on my talk page about whatever you turn up. Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 02:11, 14 March 2010 (UTC)
- Downloaded in about 2.5 hours; extracting now. I will play with it later tomorrow. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) talk 05:56, 14 March 2010 (UTC)
- See User:Gadget850/dbsearch/cite 2010-Feb-03. About 75 templates and 2500 articles. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) talk 01:42, 15 March 2010 (UTC)
- Downloaded in about 2.5 hours; extracting now. I will play with it later tomorrow. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) talk 05:56, 14 March 2010 (UTC)
- Thanks. I'd appreciate a note on my talk page about whatever you turn up. Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 02:11, 14 March 2010 (UTC)
Entire ISPs unable to read Wikipedia
OTRS has received communications from employees of two different ISPs (in two different countries) that indicate that their users are unable to even read Wikipedia from any IP starting with 175. Attempting to do so returns an error "the server where this page is located is not responding". This problem has been ongoing for nearly a month. Does anyone have any idea what could be causing this, or what more information is required to tease that out? Thank you. Someguy1221 (talk) 08:25, 13 March 2010 (UTC)- Best if they join #wikimedia-tech on the IRC freenode network and ask mark or domas. Otherwise they might be helped with the wikitech-l @lists.wikimedia.org but that will take longer, this route also works but is still longer :D
- Helpful information for solving this problem, is the best estimation of the affected range, their ASN and traceroutes. Are there issues with just wikipedia, or also commons.wikimedia.org ? —TheDJ (talk • contribs) 11:44, 13 March 2010 (UTC)
- I've passed along the information you gave me and have asked the questions you suggested. We just today received a complaint from a third ISP in yet a third country. Someguy1221 (talk) 06:01, 14 March 2010 (UTC)
- Actually, no, we are not told what to do with these issues. I always thought it was conspicuously missing from the OTRS instructions. Is there a particular SysAdmin that would be best to receive these types of complaints? I do have all of their email addresses. Someguy1221 (talk) 06:48, 14 March 2010 (UTC)
Redirect links
We have a very useful disambigious finding tool which when given a wikipedia page will tell you which links are disambigious on it. Do we have an similiar tool for finding links that are redirects? Reason being that- I think you mean "related changes" right ? (i'm personally not aware of such a tool btw but my CSS always shows redirects as green links in a page). —TheDJ (talk • contribs) 15:46, 13 March 2010 (UTC)
- Yes, related. Where do I get a CSS/how do I use it show I can see redirects in green? Regards, SunCreator (talk) 15:50, 13 March 2010 (UTC)
- Remember that linking to redirects is perfectly OK; there is no general reason to change links to bypass redirects. — Carl (CBM · talk) 15:54, 13 March 2010 (UTC)
- Yes. The purpose here is for knowing 'related changes' in a similar way to watchlists. Regards, SunCreator (talk) 15:58, 13 March 2010 (UTC)
- Remember that linking to redirects is perfectly OK; there is no general reason to change links to bypass redirects. — Carl (CBM · talk) 15:54, 13 March 2010 (UTC)
- Yes, related. Where do I get a CSS/how do I use it show I can see redirects in green? Regards, SunCreator (talk) 15:50, 13 March 2010 (UTC)
- Just answered this at Wikipedia:Help desk#Gadget to display disambiguation links?. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) talk 16:08, 13 March 2010 (UTC)
- Redirects often exist because of typos— fixing those is perfectly acceptable. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) talk 16:09, 13 March 2010 (UTC)
a.mw-redirect { color:green} a.mw-redirect:visited { color:darkgreen}- Thanks all! Redirects are cheap and good things. Regards, SunCreator (talk) 16:46, 13 March 2010 (UTC)
- User:Anomie/linkclassifier.js is wonderful; identifies redirects, disambigs, and also fair-use images and pages marked for deletion. Happy‑melon 21:27, 13 March 2010 (UTC)
- Thanks all! Redirects are cheap and good things. Regards, SunCreator (talk) 16:46, 13 March 2010 (UTC)
Including alt text in the File: namespace
Please assist First off, I am never quite sure what belongs here, mediawiki.org, or at Meta. Forgive me if this proposal is outside the scope of Wikipedia or Wikimedia. Presently, the situation for the application of the HTML attributealt is as follows: - Mediawiki software generates alt text for every image. To use the example of the current main page and to further chose one image from that page at random, we have File:Icos Laboratories.JPG. On the main page, the file has no caption, but the image link does have the title "Laboratories at Icos" and the image itself has identical alt text. If you go to the page in question, this image is used with the caption "Laboratories at Icos", but the alt text reads "A woman in a lab coat takes glass vials out of a machine. A computer displays a spectroscopy graph."
- Wikipedia guidelines at Wikipedia:ALT demands that "Every visible image should have alt text, unless the image is purely decorative, that is, it has no function and is used only for visual formatting or decoration." And furthermore "Alt text is not the same as a caption. Alt text is meant for those who cannot see the image, whereas the caption is intended for all readers."
alt in HTML, the way it is generated by Mediawiki software, and Wikipedia's guideline on the usage of alt text: - Junk alt text is automatically generated, apparently just to pass validation. In the example above, the alt text on the main page is "Laboratories at Icos", which is also the caption at Icos. This alt text is completely useless to anyone who cannot see the image. "Laboratories at Icos" does not tell me what this picture looks like (except in the vaguest possible terms), which is exactly why Wikipedia:ALT requires descriptive alt text, such as the one used on that article, "A woman in a lab coat takes glass vials out of a machine. A computer displays a spectroscopy graph." Furthermore, Wikipedia:Featured article criteria demands alt text, so this had to have been added to this article prior to it reaching the main page. Why would the article itself be required to have useful alt text as a prerequisite to get the to main page, when the main page ends up generating useless junk text? The purpose of
altin HTML is congruent to the guidelines on Wikipedia: alt text gives a description of an image, whereastitleand the purpose of captions on Wikipedia is to provide supplemental text that contextualizes an image or gives additional information that enhances the use of that image within a document. - Not only is bad alt text being generated—in contravention to the purpose of the tag in HTML, the usability it provides to readers, and the guidelines of Wikipedia—but different alt text is being generated for the same image. File:Icos Laboratories.JPG is the same on both Main Page and Icos (the only difference being its dimensions). Therefore, while a caption at either page might be different—at Icos it might read "Laboratories at Icos" but at Women in science it might read "The 1990s saw a greater influx of women into technical fields."—the alt text should ostensibly be identical. The same image is being described by alt text in either place, so there is no purpose in having it be described in two different, conflicting ways. It also creates an extra burden for Wikipedians to write up alt text repeatedly for the same image. To use another example, File:Flag of the United Kingdom.svg is used in over 50,000 pages. Sometimes, it is included in the page through a template, such as Flag of the United Kingdom, where it is in {{Infobox Flag}}. This template has an
Altfield, but it is presently unused. Other times, it is transcluded through a template such as {{UK-poli-stub}}, which has no option for alt text (cf. The Angry Brigade.) Finally, the file can be added simply through the use of [[File:Flag of the United Kingdom.svg]] in an article. In the first example, the alt text reads "See adjacent text." In the second, it says "Stub icon". In instances of the third usage, anything can be the alt text, but it is mostly likely that none is employed, generating the generic, "Flag of the United Kingdom.svg". Furthermore, at File:Flag of the United Kingdom.svg itself, the alt text for this image is the completely useless "File:Flag of the United Kingdom.svg". This serves even less of a function than if it said "Flag of the United Kingdom"; at least in that case a reader could have a good guess at what the image displays if he's ever seen that flag before, but who knows if "File:Flag of the United Kingdom.svg" is accurate or if the flag of the United Kingdom has changed since you last saw it? For that matter, "See adjacent text." and "Stub icon" are completely useless and even confusing. They cause more harm than help to anyone using a screen reader or a browser that doesn't display images.
