Wikipedia:MediaWiki messages

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Here we discuss and announce discussions about MediaWiki interface messages
If you have started a discussion on a talk page of a MediaWiki message, then you can announce that here to bring more people to the discussion.

Some MediaWiki messages have their own central discussion pages:

See also:

A quick way to find which interface message inserts some text is to search MediaWiki space with some of the text you see in the message. Note that this search only finds messages that have been created, that don't use the default text. <inputbox> type = fulltext searchbuttonlabel = Search MediaWiki messages namespaces = MediaWiki**,MediaWiki_talk** </inputbox> This search as a separate page.

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MediaWiki messages

Y Done - But more comments are always welcome. --David Göthberg 5 Dec 2009'
This discussion was moved here from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MediaWiki. --David Göthberg 29 Nov 2009
We need a single place to announce discussions about MediaWiki messages. Every now and then someone wants a change to a MediaWiki message, say MediaWiki:Sp-contributions-footer. Then the normal thing to do would be to discuss the suggested change on its talk page. (And perhaps add {{editprotected}} if the user is not an admin.) Problem is that there are lots of MediaWiki messages, and each of them is only watched by a few or no users at all.

It would be nice to have a central page that we who are interested could watch. But having all those discussions on a central page would probably be too crowded. So I suggest we mostly use the central page to just announce the discussions (link to them), but we keep the discussions on the talk pages of the respective MediaWiki messages. For a real world example, see the message above this one.

We have the {{interface explanation}} at the top of many MediaWiki talk pages. We can add a link to the central announce page in that template. We can also add a link in the editnotice that is shown for all "MediaWiki talk:" pages. That editnotice currently links to Wikipedia:Help desk and Wikipedia:Village pump (technical), which I think are bad choices for this. The Help desk is far to general, and the Village pump is to crowded.

For the .css and .js pages in MediaWiki space we should of course recommend MediaWiki talk:Common.css and MediaWiki talk:Common.js, since they are already used as central discussion pages.

I suggest we use http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MediaWiki as the central announce page for the rest of the MediaWiki messages.

--David Göthberg (talk) 23:54, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

I have centralized cite system messages at Help talk:Cite errors and Help talk:Cite messages; see those pages for the lists of redirected talk pages. If you want centralized discussions, then it would be best to redirect the talk pages; either redirect all here or figure out related groups for several centralized pages. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) talk 01:02, 21 November 2009 (UTC)
The problem is that there are probably more than 1000 MediaWiki messages. (Anyone know how to see the total number?) And some of them have fairly long discussions. And every now and then the devs add new MediaWiki messages, that we don't know about. So sometimes a user finds such a new message and wants to change it, then the talk page won't even exist yet.
But sure, when messages are related then it is a good thing to redirect their talk pages to one single talk page. And we already do that in several places. But even then, those shared talk pages are usually not watched by enough users.
Oh, and what I am suggesting here is an entirely voluntary procedure. I just want to update the link and the explanation in the MediaWiki namespace editnotice, and add the same thing in the {{interface explanation}} template. So those that want to have comments on their suggestion have a decent place to go to announce their discussion. And of course link to this page from some other pages.
And I want some feedback from you guys about what page that link should go to. (My suggestion is this talk page.)
--David Göthberg (talk) 01:39, 21 November 2009 (UTC)
I see your point. Browsing through Special:Allmessages, it is more like 6500 messages for each language. (And we should really fix British English, but that is a separate issue). ---— Gadget850 (Ed) talk 04:13, 21 November 2009 (UTC)
Historically, we've used the technical village pump for these kinds of discussions. Perhaps creating a wikipedia:Village pump (MediaWiki messages) or something would work well? I don't like "Wikipedia:MediaWiki" and it looks like a malformed page title and doesn't actually describe anything. Maybe "Wikipedia:MediaWiki messages" or something, though I'm still slightly more in favor of a village pump.

There are about 6500 MediaWiki messages, though the number can (and does) fluctuate based on which extensions are installed, which features are used, etc. I'd strongly recommend not redirecting all of the talk pages if it's avoidable. Some sort of editnotice or even JavaScript redirector would be much better in my mind. --MZMcBride (talk) 04:51, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

Ouch, 6500 messages! More than I thought.
MZMcBride: Yes, a new village pump would be nice, then it would be very clear what it is for. And the name you suggest for it sounds good. It would be very low traffic compared to the other pumps, which would be good. But other people might think that a village pump would be overkill for such a low traffic page. But considering the huge amount of traffic on the other pumps, then it would be good to separate out some topics.
But your suggestion Wikipedia:MediaWiki messages also sounds good, and probably more realistic. (It is currently just an unused redirect.) Do you mean we should announce and discuss directly on that page, or on its talk page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MediaWiki_messages?
--David Göthberg (talk) 05:41, 21 November 2009 (UTC)
I was thinking about doing it on the subject-space page (Wikipedia:MediaWiki messages). That seems consistent with the village pumps and noticeboards. According to http://en.wikipedia.org/w/api.php?action=query&meta=allmessages (warning: large page) there are 6,412 messages currently. --MZMcBride (talk) 05:47, 21 November 2009 (UTC)
That sounds good to me. A new Village Pump would seem to be overkill. It should be linked from VPT though, somehow. Rd232 talk 12:22, 21 November 2009 (UTC)
6412 messages x 355 languages = 2,276,260 total messages. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) talk 15:24, 21 November 2009 (UTC)
End section moved here from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MediaWiki. --David Göthberg 29 Nov 2009
Okay, so I have started out this page. I will link to it from a number of places, and update the MediaWiki namespace editnotice.
--David Göthberg (talk) 18:18, 29 November 2009 (UTC)
I just found a really old talk page used to discuss MediaWiki messages: "Wikipedia talk:MediaWiki namespace text". But it no longer had a subject page. So I moved it and its archives to be archives 1 to 4 under this page instead.
--David Göthberg (talk) 14:01, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

MediaWiki:Youhavenewmessages

I would like to add a CSS id to MediaWiki:Youhavenewmessages, so we can handle it better in JavaScript. See discussion at MediaWiki talk:Youhavenewmessages#CSS id needed.

--David Göthberg (talk) 23:54, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

Y Done - And it works fine. --David Göthberg (talk) 18:18, 29 November 2009 (UTC)

MediaWiki:1movedto2

A discussion at MediaWiki talk:1movedto2#Delete? on whether to delete this and two other MediaWiki messages which are now identical to the default message. --Dinoguy1000 (talk<dot-separator> contribs) as 208.124.86.54 (talk) 01:45, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

Since this discussion now concerns many messages, I moved the discussion here. --David Göthberg (talk) 10:15, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
According to Special:Allmessages, the default message is now identical to the current text of this system message (the same is also true for MediaWiki:1movedto2 redir and MediaWiki:Aboutpage). I recall hearing that performance is slightly improved if the local MediaWiki message is deleted (or remains uncreated) in these cases, and therefore I'm wondering if these messages shouldn't just be deleted. Thoughts? --Dinoguy1000 (talk<dot-separator> contribs) as 208.124.86.54 (talk) 01:43, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

There is also MediaWiki:Allmessages, MediaWiki:Anonymous, MediaWiki:Badfilename, and MediaWiki:Badipaddress. Anyone care to run an automated sweep for these messages and list them all, if it's possible? --Dinoguy1000 (talk<dot-separator> contribs) as 208.124.86.54 (talk) 01:52, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
End of messages moved here from MediaWiki talk:1movedto2. --David Göthberg (talk) 10:15, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
Dinoguy1000: I hope you don't mind I moved the discussion here? Whatever our conclusion will be it would be nice to have it visible here.
Finding the duplicates is easy, even by hand. At Special:Allmessages I clicked the option to only see the modified messages, and there are only about 785 of them. I can load them 250 a time without problems even on my slow computer. So I can look through them fairly easily. And I could right click them to open them and delete them at the same time I go through the list, so no need to first list them here.
But deleting those messages means we hide the edit histories of those messages, which might be a bad thing. And it also means they become harder to find, since they can't be searched for using the MediaWiki search. But if it costs less to run them, then it might be worth it. I think we need feedback from someone that knows more about this. I will ask around.
I took a look, it seems that all of those cases are short messages. So my guess is that it isn't much of a performance issue to keep them.
--David Göthberg (talk) 10:15, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
If there really is an improvement in performance to be gained, we can discuss this but we should find put if this really is the case, before we start discussing this. I see no point in deleting them if there is nothing to be gained from it. Regards SoWhy 19:30, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
I ask this because I recall that various accesskey messages were at one time created and then later deleted because they were identical to their defaults and because there was a slight performance hit from them existing. I don't, however, know if there was any type of discussion on it at the time or if it is still an issue. (and David, no, I don't mind that you moved the discussion here; I considered starting it here and I guess I should have =) ) --Dinoguy1000 (talk<dot-separator> contribs) as 72.251.164.58 (talk) 01:03, 3 December 2009 (UTC)
The problem with system messages equivalent to the default is that they don't update when they change. If for whatever reason it's believed that it's good to change the message MediaWiki:1movedto2 in the software, here on Wikipedia the message doesn't update because there's a message on top of it. You might say that this specific message doesn't need updating, but I say we don't know that for sure. The software or the context in which the message is used can change, as we don't know what the future will give us. For example, if the context in which a system message is used changes, then an outdated message might be misleading. I see the point in keeping the edit history and I would have a solution for this. Instead of simply deleting the message, the history could be moved to MediaWiki:Foo/hist, i.e. MediaWiki:1movedto2/hist, so that it can still be referred to it, but the actual message is open for any changes (of course with redirect suppressed on). It could then furthermore be linked in {{Interface explanation}}. --The Evil IP address (talk) 16:30, 25 January 2010 (UTC)
The Evil IP address: Oh, good thinking, I agree. So now we have a good clear reason why it is good to "delete" all MediaWiki messages that are identical to the default.
And you are also right that it would be nice to have access to the edit history. But for performance reasons I suggest we instead move those messages to a subpage under their talkpage. Since the servers keep all the MediaWiki messages in RAM all the time, while the "MediaWiki talk" pages are cached on disk as usual. So I suggest we move MediaWiki:1movedto2 to MediaWiki talk:1movedto2/hist.
The subpage name should be standardised so as you suggest we can auto-link to it from {{interface explanation}}. I like your suggested name "/hist", but other suggestions are of course welcome. I will also make it so the namespace notices for MediaWiki and MediaWiki talk space detects and auto-links to such /hist pages.
Another benefit of this is that the content of those messages still will be searchable with the Wikipedia search! (The search box at the top of this page already searches MediaWiki talk space.) Searching that way is often the easiest way to find which message is handling some interface text, since Special:AllMessages is to clumsy.
This gave me an idea: We should perhaps have a bot also create such talkpage "/hist" copies for all the default messages that haven't been created yet. Thus enabling us to search for all the messages! That would be very convenient. The bot should perhaps do a new run every now and then to check if any of the default messages have been changed to a new default. I mean changed in the software, not by edits here.
We should think about this for a while before we go ahead. Since there are some tricky parts, like what should we do with the /hist page if the message is created?
--David Göthberg (talk) 19:20, 25 January 2010 (UTC)
We must also consider how to handle messages which have been created in the past, but were later deleted. Unfortunately, the deletion log (as well as all the other logs) doesn't allow for narrowing results based on namespace, so there doesn't seem to be any easy way to pull a list of such deletions on-wiki, but someone with a toolserver account could probably do it. --Dinoguy1000 (talk<dot-separator> contribs) as 67.58.229.153 (talk) 18:26, 9 March 2010 (UTC)

Script documentation

Amalthea wants to automatically add documentation on top of .js and .css pages, and I intend to implement it. See discussion at MediaWiki talk:Clearyourcache#Script documentation.

--David Göthberg (talk) 05:05, 3 December 2009 (UTC)

Mostly done. But we want to add one more feature to it that might be controversial, so we would like more input. We want to always show a link to the documentation of .js and .css pages, even when the documentation doesn't exist, thus it would often be a red link. See Template talk:Script doc auto.
--David Göthberg (talk) 06:49, 16 January 2010 (UTC)

Brush-up of the log in page

I am planning some fixes to the log in page. See MediaWiki talk:Loginend#Brush-up of code.

--David Göthberg (talk) 15:09, 3 December 2009 (UTC)

Y Done --David Göthberg (talk) 23:02, 23 December 2009 (UTC)

Search page help links

The help links on the search page got removed (without any discussion) when the new search interface was deployed some time ago. There is a discussion about adding them back. See MediaWiki talk:Searchmenu-exists#Renewed request.

--David Göthberg (talk) 14:26, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

Secure server

Currently most links to other Wikimedia projects (like Wiktionary) point to the normal servers, even when the user is using the secure server. I am now updating the links in the MediaWiki interface and in other places such as the Main Page and the sister project templates. I make it so users on the secure server see secure links, while users on the normal servers see normal links.

This means I am editing many high-visibility places, and that I am doing a site wide change, so I am announcing this in case anyone has any comments about it. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secure_server#Sister_project_links for more on this and to discuss it.

--David Göthberg (talk) 23:06, 23 December 2009 (UTC)

Viewing protected pages

When non-admins and IP-users "view the source" of a protected page, they currently don't see the editnotice of the page. But the editnotice often contains information that is useful even when just viewing the source. So I am planning to make it so the editnotices are loaded also when just "viewing the source" of the pages. Technically I will do this by adding the editnotice loader to the MediaWiki messages that are shown when non-admins and IP-users view semi and fully protected pages. See discussion at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Editnotice#Viewing_protected_pages.

--David Göthberg (talk) 08:15, 5 January 2010 (UTC)

Y Done - I have updated the editnotice system. But there are several discussions on that page about adding other features. --David Göthberg (talk) 06:43, 16 January 2010 (UTC)

Arrangement of Latin characters below edit window

Please see MediaWiki talk:Edittools#Arrangement of Latin characters below edit window.-- Wavelength (talk) 05:29, 16 January 2010 (UTC)

Please do not copy and paste from copyrighted websites

Where do I find the Please do not copy and paste from copyrighted websites – only public domain resources can be copied without permission. MediaWiki message that's found at the bottom of every edit page? I'd like to discuss whether it needs changing, and if so, how to best change it. --Elvey (talk) 09:21, 19 January 2010 (UTC)
FOUND: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MediaWiki:Edittools is it, right?--Elvey (talk) 09:37, 19 January 2010 (UTC)
Yes, MediaWiki:Edittools is the interface message that displays most of the stuff below the edit window. And it has a reasonably active talk page so you can discuss there. I think I can guess what you want to discuss, since we are also allowed to copy stuff that has licenses that are compatible with Wikipedia's licenses.
You should perhaps announce your discussion at Wikipedia:Village pump (policy) or so to bring in more people to your discussion at MediaWiki talk:Edittools.
--David Göthberg (talk) 10:49, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

Britain Loves Wikipedia - sitenotice

Hi all. I've put up a request for a sitenotice for Britain Loves Wikipedia at MediaWiki talk:Sitenotice#Britain_Loves_Wikipedia - comments/thoughts/screams of outrage welcome. ;-) Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 23:54, 28 January 2010 (UTC)

Added request to Newarticletext

I've asked that a message inviting editors to direct new articles about breaking news events to Wikinews to the New Article message template, and the system said that should also be listed here. Interested editors are invited to see it at MediaWiki talk:Newarticletext Squidfryerchef (talk) 13:50, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

"templates used" message

Please see MediaWiki talk:Templatesused#Wording_(Feb_2010). — John Cardinal (talk) 03:49, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

Change one link in Other Statistics

I suggested this at MediaWiki talk:Statistics-footer#Change one link in Other Statistics before I knew about this page: The page linked to by Most accessed pages this month hasn't been updated in months. Trends on English Wikipedia seems to at least be maintained however, so I think that we should replace the wikistics link (on MediaWiki:Statistics-footer).
— V = IR (Talk • Contribs) 20:54, 15 February 2010 (UTC)

Template Help

Hi, im trying to make templates like {{ambox}} on my own wiki site.
I asked someone who knows about templates and they say I need magic words and phaser functions.
See User:Sghfdhdfghdfgfd#Template_Help
Sghfdhdfghdfgfd (talk) 16:42, 24 February 2010 (UTC)
This page is for notifications related to MediaWiki system messages. Try the Help desk. Happy‑melon 22:56, 24 February 2010 (UTC)
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